Curse

Lets Get to Healing · Nov 15, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Remover timer, please. The reason for its implementation is gone, so it doesn't need to exist any longer.

If not that, add a "Minion Interface", at the VERY least.

Red Sonya · Nov 15, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

Soul Reaping is arguably the best primary attribute in the game already. I have to say I disagree that Anet should remove the timer. Besides, it doesn't matter now. It won't be used in PvP because things don't die reliably enough. In PvE, Necros are already good. No need to give them infinite energy so they can spam 15 energy spells like they're free.

Oh but it's ok for Ranger/Necros to spam infinite Life Stealing 15 energy skills eh? Sorry, but, that expertise is the best primary attribute for energy management. With the timer on necros now moreso. Remove the timer on SR Izzy and quit being an ashat.

lavenbb · Nov 15, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I think removing the timer would be nice, but only if they make it so all summoned creature do not give energy.

jrk247 · Nov 15, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

The original solution from the players was to remove the energy benefit you get with soul reaping from spirits, now that Anet's finally done that after a few months maybe they should remove the pointless timer?

With energy gain from spirits gone there's really no need for the timer. SR is only really good in PvE, stuff in PvP (except in AB) doesn't die that often for SR to be imbalanced.

Curse You · Nov 15, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavenbb

I think removing the timer would be nice, but only if they make it so all summoned creature do not give energy.

Why? Something (not pets anymore) needs to die in order for minions to be summoned. So in order for them to be effective, they need to be able to kill at least one enemy. That's hardly overpowered.

Chthon · Nov 15, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavenbb

I think removing the timer would be nice, but only if they make it so all summoned creature do not give energy.

Whenever you see this suggestion, you know it's coming from someone with near-zero necromancer experience.

Getting soul reaping off your own minions is 100% vital to every minion master build out there. You'd pretty much destroy necromancer's signature "thing" if you did that. Someone in the necromancer forums said they'd quit GW for good if a-net did such I think, and I think that would be totally justified.

Now, eliminating soul reaping from other people's minions might be worth considering.

However, as long as Jagged Bones keeps that garbage recharge time, there's no need. One (or two) minion(s) per body, plus one minion every 15 sec via JB is not enough to build the sort of infinite energy engine that causes problems like spiritway.

Sum, for now, this point is moot. In the extremely unlikely case that JB gets unnerfed, then maybe it might be time to look at restricting SR to your own minions. In NO CASE should SR from your own minions go away.

Jamison0071 · Nov 15, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

/Signed, come on guys stop hurting the necros! We hurt ourselves! /sacrifice

Sergeant of Marines · Nov 15, 2007, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamison0071

/Signed, come on guys stop hurting the necros! We hurt ourselves! /sacrifice

That was funny, but anyways...

I would have to say /notsigned...

Everyclass has to have E-Management, why not the Necros?

Blackhawk · Nov 15, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Now, eliminating soul reaping from other people's minions might be worth considering.

I agree, that would be a small price to pay in exchange for the timer to be removed, and I think pretty much all Necro's would accept that.

Blackhawk · Nov 15, 2007, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergeant of Marines

That was funny, but anyways...

I would have to say /notsigned...

Everyclass has to have E-Management, why not the Necros?

Because Necros dont exactly have an abundance of E-Management skills on any of their main attribute lines like the other classes which is why SR was the primary necro attribute, and if you don't have NF/EoTN you're pretty much screwed.

Zeek Aran · Nov 15, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lets Get to Healing

Remover timer, please. The reason for its implementation is gone, so it doesn't need to exist any longer.

If not that, add a "Minion Interface", at the VERY least.

I would love both SR removed and the minion interface. <3

unienaule · Nov 15, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

So, as of now, there's a pretty popular three-necro hero build that people use to clear hard mode, because of soul reaping, and you're saying that soul reaping needs to get better? I don't quite follow.

Zeek Aran · Nov 15, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

So, as of now, there's a pretty popular three-necro hero build that people use to clear hard mode, because of soul reaping, and you're saying that soul reaping needs to get better? I don't quite follow.

.... *pokes you with minion interface*

Lobo_the_great · Nov 15, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

/notsigned The timer needs to stay otherwise it might start getting exploited in pvp again. how you may ask? simple through pets and minions (not from the pets from other dead bodies) it's not that hard to imagine entire teams going /r with charm and comfort animal just to make the pets die and than res them 2 secs later only to have them die and get resed over and over just to give necros energy. I can already see some people posting up an argument against this "than just don't target the pets" and this is true to some extent but AOE (IE splinter weapon, eles,) will almost make sure that at least one pet gets killed in a match. Secondly if a few players die people will use bone minions (AKA animate SR fodder) and get 6-8 of these minions running around giving free energy to the necros once they die. I know a lot of you might reply to this saying "but that's not happening yet" and that is true but if theres one thing I've learned from playing GW its just how creative the player base is and that they may find some way to abuse SR if the timer gets removed and we have yet another SR fiasco. Besides It's not as if SR is a worthless primary attribute with the timer. I mean seriously guys at 9 SR thats 27 energy every 15 seconds and if thats not enough you also have sig of lost souls, GOLE, and the entire inspiration Mesmer line to work with if you need more E-management. But thats just my $0.02 (sorry for the wall of text)

Zeek Aran · Nov 15, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobo_the_great

/notsigned The timer needs to stay otherwise it might start getting exploited in pvp again. how you may ask? simple through pets and minions (not from the pets from other dead bodies) it's not that hard to imagine entire teams going /r with charm and comfort animal just to make the pets die and than res them 2 secs later only to have them die and get resed over and over just to give necros energy. I can already see some people posting up an argument against this "than just don't target the pets" and this is true to some extent but AOE (IE splinter weapon, eles,) will almost make sure that at least one pet gets killed in a match. Secondly if a few players die people will use bone minions (AKA animate SR fodder) and get 6-8 of these minions running around giving free energy to the necros once they die. I know a lot of you might reply to this saying "but that's not happening yet" and that is true but if theres one thing I've learned from playing GW its just how creative the player base is and that they may find some way to abuse SR if the timer gets removed and we have yet another SR fiasco. Besides It's not as if SR is a worthless primary attribute with the timer. I mean seriously guys at 9 SR thats 27 energy every 15 seconds and if thats not enough you also have sig of lost souls, GOLE, and the entire inspiration Mesmer line to work with if you need more E-management. But thats just my $0.02 (sorry for the wall of text)

The pet disable hurts. A LOT. It won't be used like that.

soeccentric · Nov 15, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

/signed
Sadly I don't think they will remove the timer.

I've always thought they should have removed the sr from spirits when they first nerfed sr and look what they are doing removing it a YEAR LATER.

Goes to show how much anet listens to pver'ers or care.

If SR doesn't get reverted back then I won't be supporting guildwars 2 because i know that this is how they listen, and they don't to pver'ers and it sucks.

To all the people that say necros never used e managment i sure as hell did before the nerf, it's called wait till something dies. And usually i get all my energy back at the end of the battle which sucks but that's how things pan out when things decide to die.

I'm so tired of pvp people think they are so high and mighty.
Get off your high horse pver'ers want things too.

SOls works kinda like energy drain you use it and then o wait its to late because the monster is already dead or i'll push it to soon. UGH.

And on the topic of tombs of prime evil kings I've played topk a lot and find that half way through people will leave. If you doing a balanced build that doesn't really work but if you do a b/p build and you have a good mm every single pet corpse counts. and at least it's still do able.

Curse You · Nov 15, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergeant of Marines

I would have to say /notsigned...

Everyclass has to have E-Management, why not the Necros?

Maybe since Soul Reaping basically is their E-Management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobo_the_great

/notsigned The timer needs to stay otherwise it might start getting exploited in pvp again. how you may ask? simple through pets and minions (not from the pets from other dead bodies) it's not that hard to imagine entire teams going /r with charm and comfort animal just to make the pets die and than res them 2 secs later only to have them die and get resed over and over just to give necros energy. I can already see some people posting up an argument against this "than just don't target the pets" and this is true to some extent but AOE (IE splinter weapon, eles,) will almost make sure that at least one pet gets killed in a match. Secondly if a few players die people will use bone minions (AKA animate SR fodder) and get 6-8 of these minions running around giving free energy to the necros once they die. I know a lot of you might reply to this saying "but that's not happening yet" and that is true but if theres one thing I've learned from playing GW its just how creative the player base is and that they may find some way to abuse SR if the timer gets removed and we have yet another SR fiasco. Besides It's not as if SR is a worthless primary attribute with the timer. I mean seriously guys at 9 SR thats 27 energy every 15 seconds and if thats not enough you also have sig of lost souls, GOLE, and the entire inspiration Mesmer line to work with if you need more E-management. But thats just my $0.02 (sorry for the wall of text)

So, you spend 10 energy to get 13 energy, assuming the enemy is dumb enough to keep killing your pet? Yea, that's really going to be overpowered. Add to that the fact that when your pet dies, your skills are disabled for 10 seconds (unless it was just revived).

Even if you did have a whole team of people doing that, the best you could hope for would be 6 pets (very unlikely), and each person would have to sacrifice 2 skill slots. The most possible energy would then be (assuming 13 SR) 68 (78 - 10 energy to revive pet). However, it is very unlikely that all 6 pets will die at the same time, and since your skills then get disabled for 10 seconds, you might as well have just waited 10 seconds for your energy to regen a little.

fntmx1 · Nov 15, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

I would like to say A-Net is ran by smart people. I really do. I mean, they draw in all these players and once the money is in their hands, they screw the majority of them (I could be wrong, but from my observations, there is a lot more PvE'ers than those who PvP).

But they're not smart. In fact, they are very stupid. They lack hindsight, and it is that which will drive their company to the ground in a few years. Here's what I mean: look at all these PvE skills. Look at all the PvE content. From conception, to development, to release, PvE is their main focus. But what happens in the maintenance portion of the game? It's primarily PvP driven. Few of the changes made has had PvE in mind. Perhaps they think that once all the PvE'ers are done with the content, they'll automatically jump over to PvP? No, that's not how it works. Still, A-Net modify things from skills, to core game mechanics in order to appease the PvP crowd mostly. In a more recent example, SR nerfs. If they had any hindsight of the things to come, they would've just removed SR gain from spirits off the bat. But they didn't. They took their sweet time to see their mistake. Now, all we're left with is a muddled garbage Necros call a primary attribute.

Even more so would be to upset such a large portion of their player base now is the dumbest thing I've seen in a while. Why now, you say? With the release of Guild Wars 2, there will be a major discontinuity between the games. For some, the 2 things combined will be enough for a player such as myself to not purchase the game. With less PvE'ers (and before I continue, I want to state that I do not condone or participate in the act of online gold buying... as if the games weren't enough money...), there will be less demand for online gold sellers. Less accounts bought means less revenue in their pockets. Like it or not, it's obvious bots account for a good percent of those "3 millions copies sold."

I personally didn't play Necro too much, and even less after the initial SR nerf. But to see such an atrocity, I just can't keep my 2 cents to myself. However, I will not be signing this. Instead I hope they keep this. Simply to infuriate all of those who have been affected negatively by it. Perhaps by the time Guild Wars 2 hits the shelves, A-Net will realize their grave error. They'll wish they can change things like they can now, but by then it will be too late.

/notsigned

anonymous · Nov 15, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

/notsigned

If you need more than 30 energy ontop of natural regen and minor e-management every 15 seconds, then you need to tone your bar down a bit and make it more energy friendly. You shouldn't be able to spam 25e skills fueled by an army of minions dying.

Hyper Cutter · Nov 15, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergeant of Marines

Everyclass has to have E-Management, why not the Necros?

Because SR is their E-management, maybe? Not like the attribute's good for much else (having only 7 skills, most of which are crap)...